Thank you again Glenn for this post. I am in the unenlightened crowd concerning angels. This was very interesting and plan to forward this. BTW I loved the videos you did at the recent Colson conference. Is there anyway I could watch those again?
I don't actually own those. They belong to the Colson Center. And I don't have a link to any of the videos I've done for the CCNC either this year or previous years. I'll try to get the link(s) and post them.
The subject of angels have always fascinated me, and I admit that it can sometimes veer into dangerous territory. When I was a kid -- maybe preschool or early elementary -- I held onto this preposterous idea that angels were higher than God for the sole reason that their aesthetics in artwork are more visually pleasing (fair maidens with wings vs. an old man with long beard is no contest for 3-year-old me).
When I actually started learning basic Reformed theology, I swung to the opposite direction and stopped regarding angels altogether. Tim Mackie from The Bible Project re-introduced me to their reality, and the idea that seraphim were originally portrayed as serpent-like beings and their potential connection to the Genesis 3 serpent stuck with me.
I do think that the excessive preoccupation with angels, demons, and spiritual beings (whom the Bible admittedly don't extensively document about) is more dangerous than the overcorrection, but I am glad for the wonderful richness of this realm that God has allowed us glimpses into.
It is possible to go overboard in this area as in so many others. For example, I don't think we should be praying to angels (including Michael); we should only pray to God. While we can ask Him to send angels to protect us, for example, I think in general it is better to pray for our needs and leave it to God to decide how to answer. And we should not see demons behind every bush or adopt a "when in doubt, cast it out" attitude. But at the same time, if we are to have a supernatural worldview, I think it is important to recognize the existence and activity of the unseen world rather than ignore it. It is more biblical than a lot of our more rationalistic brothers and sisters recognize.
I have a conjecture that polytheism in ancient history may have arose from spirit/angel worship, and perhaps compounded by ancestor veneration practices.
For example, I read an account of a pre-Islamic Turkic creation myth, which stated that Tengri (the creator God) left the world after Er Kishi (a satanic figure) corrupted creation, and remained in the highest Heaven, from where “he sent sacred animals to guide the people he had created. Shamans made their way to the fifth heaven to consult with the divine spirits.” (Leeming 2010)
Now, I’m not assuming that this is what actually happened in the spiritual realm after the fall of humanity, but with this kind of hierarchical system of worship, it is not hard to imagine the drift: people end up regarding those lesser “divine spirits” as equal to God and eventually replacing Him as their central object of worship—especially since many of these “divine spirits” are likely rebellious beings who intend to deliberately deceive and corrupt people.
Haven't really done further research on this, but it's a useful counter-narrative against the common understanding that monotheism is a later invention in anthropological history and that polytheism is the "default" belief system.
Tengri (“Sky” or “Heaven”) is an interesting case. I am most familiar with him from Mongolia. He has many of the characteristics of the biblical God (creator, righteous, judge of heaven and earth, all powerful, all knowing, etc.) but with one major difference: he does not communicate with humanity; that is why they need shamans to communicate with the intermediate spirits (shedim?) and do magic. I think it was Mongolian influence that led China to change the name of its supreme God from Shuangdi to Tien (“Heaven”), which I think is connected etymologically to Tengri.
AFAIK, plenty of myths do have the concept of a "Sky Ruler/Father", with varying degrees of similarity with the Biblical God. Among the ones I've read about, Tengri does seem to have one of the closest matches.
However, the Chinese concept Shangdi (which means "Lord Above") and Tian (i.e. "heaven") have been around since the Shang and Zhou Dynasties, which is before the oldest known records of Mongol history, but I guess we shouldn't rule out the possibility of early contact that led to linguistic influences, but didn't make it into present records.
And (based on admittedly limited encounter) present day Chinese Christians tend to use Shangdi more to call God, because tian in everyday language just means "sky".
From my reading when I was teaching World Civ, the Zhou dynasty replaced Di with Tian--so you get things like the Mandate of Heaven and the Temple of Heaven. Given the similarity in meaning with Tengri, and given that the Zhou were in the north near Mongolia, it seems reasonable to infer influence.
Very interesting and well done. I would love to see you expand upon the closing paragraphs. What might it look like if our view were “re-enchanted”? Can you think of any times in church history where we find specific examples?
I am in the process of researching and writing about this. In a nutshell, as I see it, re-enchantment involves three things: recovery of imagination as a the organ of meaning as C.S. Lewis says; recovery of a sacramental vision of the world, that is, recognizing that everything in the world points beyond itself to moral and spiritual truth, that the world is more than stuff, it has meaning; and recovery of a supernatural worldview, of which this is just a part. All of these are found (imperfectly) in the worldview of the Middle Ages and Renaissance. We can’t and shouldn’t go back to that—we can’t pretend that modernity and science didn’t happen—but we can go through modernity to recover what we lost in the bargain we made with science.
I look forward to hearing more, & I’m on a similar path, spiritually. When Putin invaded Ukraine, I prayed (and continue to pray) that God would send angels to protect them. I have no way to know objectively if that is happening, but they’ve managed to hang on, haven’t they?
In this case, I think Occam’s Razor ultimately adds complexity. Diminishing or ignoring the spiritual requires folks to come up with some convoluted arguments to try to make sense of certain passages of Scripture — to disenchant the enchanted. When one acknowledges the spiritual, things become clearer and simpler and more beautiful and fuller.
Thanks Glen, you’re the best. Connecting the unseen world with the seen world is so critical to a full throated world view. Many Christian’s just don’t get it. It’s like years ago understanding that as believers in Ayesha you can not separate the secular from the sacred. Jesus is Lord covers the whole of creation.
A very informative article. I believe I was visited by an angel in the men’s room at O’Hare airport no less The back story is a long one so I won’t go into it
I was taking a 5 year old into the men’s room and encountered a well dressed black man with very white hair. No luggage or ticket in hand. But he looked at me and then the little boy and all he kept repeating was Bless you sir. Then he walked away and disappeared.
I didn’t give it much thought considering it was at O’Hare. The next morning I was missing that boy and a voice as clear as if someone was in front of me. Saying don’t be upset I gave you a reward yesterday and immediately in my mind that interaction replayed. The voice also told me that soon I will be a father to many. Three months later our church began ministering to single parent welfare families and many of the children looked to me as a father figure.
Thank you for this overview of angels Dr. Sunshine! I would definitely be interested in learning more about the three other archangels mentioned in the post—with the symbolism of seven as signifying fullness/completion.
Thank you again Glenn for this post. I am in the unenlightened crowd concerning angels. This was very interesting and plan to forward this. BTW I loved the videos you did at the recent Colson conference. Is there anyway I could watch those again?
I don't actually own those. They belong to the Colson Center. And I don't have a link to any of the videos I've done for the CCNC either this year or previous years. I'll try to get the link(s) and post them.
Thank you so much
I can’t put an attachment in a reply, so check my notes for last year’s. I don’t have his year’s yet.
I'd love a link to watch them too.
The subject of angels have always fascinated me, and I admit that it can sometimes veer into dangerous territory. When I was a kid -- maybe preschool or early elementary -- I held onto this preposterous idea that angels were higher than God for the sole reason that their aesthetics in artwork are more visually pleasing (fair maidens with wings vs. an old man with long beard is no contest for 3-year-old me).
When I actually started learning basic Reformed theology, I swung to the opposite direction and stopped regarding angels altogether. Tim Mackie from The Bible Project re-introduced me to their reality, and the idea that seraphim were originally portrayed as serpent-like beings and their potential connection to the Genesis 3 serpent stuck with me.
I do think that the excessive preoccupation with angels, demons, and spiritual beings (whom the Bible admittedly don't extensively document about) is more dangerous than the overcorrection, but I am glad for the wonderful richness of this realm that God has allowed us glimpses into.
It is possible to go overboard in this area as in so many others. For example, I don't think we should be praying to angels (including Michael); we should only pray to God. While we can ask Him to send angels to protect us, for example, I think in general it is better to pray for our needs and leave it to God to decide how to answer. And we should not see demons behind every bush or adopt a "when in doubt, cast it out" attitude. But at the same time, if we are to have a supernatural worldview, I think it is important to recognize the existence and activity of the unseen world rather than ignore it. It is more biblical than a lot of our more rationalistic brothers and sisters recognize.
I have a conjecture that polytheism in ancient history may have arose from spirit/angel worship, and perhaps compounded by ancestor veneration practices.
For example, I read an account of a pre-Islamic Turkic creation myth, which stated that Tengri (the creator God) left the world after Er Kishi (a satanic figure) corrupted creation, and remained in the highest Heaven, from where “he sent sacred animals to guide the people he had created. Shamans made their way to the fifth heaven to consult with the divine spirits.” (Leeming 2010)
Now, I’m not assuming that this is what actually happened in the spiritual realm after the fall of humanity, but with this kind of hierarchical system of worship, it is not hard to imagine the drift: people end up regarding those lesser “divine spirits” as equal to God and eventually replacing Him as their central object of worship—especially since many of these “divine spirits” are likely rebellious beings who intend to deliberately deceive and corrupt people.
Haven't really done further research on this, but it's a useful counter-narrative against the common understanding that monotheism is a later invention in anthropological history and that polytheism is the "default" belief system.
Tengri (“Sky” or “Heaven”) is an interesting case. I am most familiar with him from Mongolia. He has many of the characteristics of the biblical God (creator, righteous, judge of heaven and earth, all powerful, all knowing, etc.) but with one major difference: he does not communicate with humanity; that is why they need shamans to communicate with the intermediate spirits (shedim?) and do magic. I think it was Mongolian influence that led China to change the name of its supreme God from Shuangdi to Tien (“Heaven”), which I think is connected etymologically to Tengri.
AFAIK, plenty of myths do have the concept of a "Sky Ruler/Father", with varying degrees of similarity with the Biblical God. Among the ones I've read about, Tengri does seem to have one of the closest matches.
However, the Chinese concept Shangdi (which means "Lord Above") and Tian (i.e. "heaven") have been around since the Shang and Zhou Dynasties, which is before the oldest known records of Mongol history, but I guess we shouldn't rule out the possibility of early contact that led to linguistic influences, but didn't make it into present records.
And (based on admittedly limited encounter) present day Chinese Christians tend to use Shangdi more to call God, because tian in everyday language just means "sky".
From my reading when I was teaching World Civ, the Zhou dynasty replaced Di with Tian--so you get things like the Mandate of Heaven and the Temple of Heaven. Given the similarity in meaning with Tengri, and given that the Zhou were in the north near Mongolia, it seems reasonable to infer influence.
Oh, you teach World Civilization? That’s awesome! What are some good books/historians to read?
Very interesting and well done. I would love to see you expand upon the closing paragraphs. What might it look like if our view were “re-enchanted”? Can you think of any times in church history where we find specific examples?
I am in the process of researching and writing about this. In a nutshell, as I see it, re-enchantment involves three things: recovery of imagination as a the organ of meaning as C.S. Lewis says; recovery of a sacramental vision of the world, that is, recognizing that everything in the world points beyond itself to moral and spiritual truth, that the world is more than stuff, it has meaning; and recovery of a supernatural worldview, of which this is just a part. All of these are found (imperfectly) in the worldview of the Middle Ages and Renaissance. We can’t and shouldn’t go back to that—we can’t pretend that modernity and science didn’t happen—but we can go through modernity to recover what we lost in the bargain we made with science.
I look forward to hearing more, & I’m on a similar path, spiritually. When Putin invaded Ukraine, I prayed (and continue to pray) that God would send angels to protect them. I have no way to know objectively if that is happening, but they’ve managed to hang on, haven’t they?
In this case, I think Occam’s Razor ultimately adds complexity. Diminishing or ignoring the spiritual requires folks to come up with some convoluted arguments to try to make sense of certain passages of Scripture — to disenchant the enchanted. When one acknowledges the spiritual, things become clearer and simpler and more beautiful and fuller.
I hate it when A I corrects spelling, maybe there are demons in the machine. Yeshua is what I spelled.
Thanks Glen, you’re the best. Connecting the unseen world with the seen world is so critical to a full throated world view. Many Christian’s just don’t get it. It’s like years ago understanding that as believers in Ayesha you can not separate the secular from the sacred. Jesus is Lord covers the whole of creation.
A very informative article. I believe I was visited by an angel in the men’s room at O’Hare airport no less The back story is a long one so I won’t go into it
I was taking a 5 year old into the men’s room and encountered a well dressed black man with very white hair. No luggage or ticket in hand. But he looked at me and then the little boy and all he kept repeating was Bless you sir. Then he walked away and disappeared.
I didn’t give it much thought considering it was at O’Hare. The next morning I was missing that boy and a voice as clear as if someone was in front of me. Saying don’t be upset I gave you a reward yesterday and immediately in my mind that interaction replayed. The voice also told me that soon I will be a father to many. Three months later our church began ministering to single parent welfare families and many of the children looked to me as a father figure.
I’ve never forgotten this.
Thank you for this overview of angels Dr. Sunshine! I would definitely be interested in learning more about the three other archangels mentioned in the post—with the symbolism of seven as signifying fullness/completion.