Excellent scholarly explanation of Greek and Hebrew meanings of words that do not allow one to go down a rabbit trail of mystery but focus on the context of Scripture and not hyperbole but perhaps metaphorical names to reveal a metaphysical truth. I love the enchantment that Dr. Glenn provides.
Thanks for this fascinating exploration into biblical cryptids! My wife and I have discussed the idea of unicorns a few times, and while I see there's not much reason to think that our traditional magical horse with a horn definition fits into scripture, from what you've read is there a possibility Re’em could refer to a powerful/supernatural Ox like creature in the same way that Dragons, Leviathan and Behemoth are? Just like Dragons are connected to serpents but are different, could Re'em be connected to Ox in the same way?
My only justification for this question besides curiosity would be the passage in Job 39:9-12 and the way it is implied that the Re'em cannot be tamed in a similar but lesser way than the Leviathan and Behemoth and talked about.
A few years ago I picked up Robert Kirk's "The Secret Commonwealth" I believe by your recommendation (or reference) in a Pugcast episode. As with your framing of the concept of biblical cryptids, I think pulling in the ideas and evidence for faeries, neutral (elemental) spirits, big foot and other such beings which seems to exist but certainly do not seem to fit into just one category between natural and supernatural is helpful when looking at Leviathan and Behemoth.
Your blending of the "second interpretation" as mythological and symbolic with the "third interpretation" as theological with an emphasis that these are real beings seems to accommodate all the strange elements of these beings.
I've come to see the Leviathan as a being that is somehow demonic, maybe a neutral faerie type spirit that has been possessed or has fallen from neutral to demonic, but as you bring in the concept of it being a chaos creature that is used in God's judgement that would allow for it remain neutral as it is something that God has allowed to exist in it's destructive and terrifying form.
Then applying the idea of the Leviathan as an instrument of God's judgement also plays into the themes in Job as Job feels he is being judged and punished unfairly. And the Job 41 section on Leviathan being that last thing God says to Job before Job repents is also interesting. It's like God is saying "do you think I am being unjust in my judgement? Do you stand a chance before my great creature of judgement?"
If the creatures behemoth and leviathan described in Job are myths, then that would destroy the whole argument that God has made since it depends on God demonstrating his sovereignty, power and truthfulness in describing and even demonstrating the creatures he has made and that Job has access to. It follows on from many other real examples in creation like the binding of the Pleiades and the loosening of Orion in Job 38:31, both confirmed by modern cosmology https://coldcasechristianity.com/writings/is-the-astronomy-in-the-book-of-job-scientifically-consistent/
“Can you bind the chains of the
or loose the cords of Orion?
God explicitly frames the argument in terms of fault and truth, consider:
Job 38:1-3
Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind and said:
“Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge?
Dress for action like a man;
I will question you, and you make it known to me.
Job 40:1-9
And the LORD said to Job:
“Shall a faultfinder contend with the Almighty?
He who argues with God, let him answer it.”
Then Job answered the LORD and said:
“Behold, I am of small account; what shall I answer you?
I lay my hand on my mouth.
I have spoken once, and I will not answer;
twice, but I will proceed no further.”
Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind and said:
“Dress for action like a man;
I will question you, and you make it known to me.
Will you even put me in the wrong?
Will you condemn me that you may be in the right?
Have you an arm like God,
and can you thunder with a voice like his?
Then comes behemoth followed by leviathan…
Sarcosuchus, not a dinosaur, but an extremely large crocodilian is a potential match to the described leviathan, and it also has an unusual large bulbous structure on the end of its snout. If this was used for some kind of exothermic chemical reaction and expulsion, it is not the only example as the bombardier beetle does this now.
The osteoderms look to be a close match! Compare:
Job 41:15-17
His back is made of rows of shields,
shut up closely as with a seal.
One is so near to another
that no air can come between them.
They are joined one to another;
they clasp each other and cannot be separated.
Job 41:30
His underparts are like sharp potsherds;
he spreads himself like a threshing sledge on the mire.
“The osteoderms, also known as dermal scutes, of Sarcosuchus were similar to those goniopholodids like Sunosuchus and Goniopholis; they formed an uninterrupted surface that started in the posterior part of the neck down to the middle of the tail, these were wide, rectangular plates with keels on their lateral sides. The abdomen (belly) of the animal was also considerably armoured, possessing a minimum of 6 rows of non-overlapping osteoderms.”
Excellent scholarly explanation of Greek and Hebrew meanings of words that do not allow one to go down a rabbit trail of mystery but focus on the context of Scripture and not hyperbole but perhaps metaphorical names to reveal a metaphysical truth. I love the enchantment that Dr. Glenn provides.
Thanks for this fascinating exploration into biblical cryptids! My wife and I have discussed the idea of unicorns a few times, and while I see there's not much reason to think that our traditional magical horse with a horn definition fits into scripture, from what you've read is there a possibility Re’em could refer to a powerful/supernatural Ox like creature in the same way that Dragons, Leviathan and Behemoth are? Just like Dragons are connected to serpents but are different, could Re'em be connected to Ox in the same way?
My only justification for this question besides curiosity would be the passage in Job 39:9-12 and the way it is implied that the Re'em cannot be tamed in a similar but lesser way than the Leviathan and Behemoth and talked about.
A few years ago I picked up Robert Kirk's "The Secret Commonwealth" I believe by your recommendation (or reference) in a Pugcast episode. As with your framing of the concept of biblical cryptids, I think pulling in the ideas and evidence for faeries, neutral (elemental) spirits, big foot and other such beings which seems to exist but certainly do not seem to fit into just one category between natural and supernatural is helpful when looking at Leviathan and Behemoth.
Your blending of the "second interpretation" as mythological and symbolic with the "third interpretation" as theological with an emphasis that these are real beings seems to accommodate all the strange elements of these beings.
I've come to see the Leviathan as a being that is somehow demonic, maybe a neutral faerie type spirit that has been possessed or has fallen from neutral to demonic, but as you bring in the concept of it being a chaos creature that is used in God's judgement that would allow for it remain neutral as it is something that God has allowed to exist in it's destructive and terrifying form.
Then applying the idea of the Leviathan as an instrument of God's judgement also plays into the themes in Job as Job feels he is being judged and punished unfairly. And the Job 41 section on Leviathan being that last thing God says to Job before Job repents is also interesting. It's like God is saying "do you think I am being unjust in my judgement? Do you stand a chance before my great creature of judgement?"
Very comprehensive Glenn.
There’s an interesting tell in the KJV translation of re’em to unicorns as noted here https://creation.com/en/articles/the-unicorn in the Addendum.
If the creatures behemoth and leviathan described in Job are myths, then that would destroy the whole argument that God has made since it depends on God demonstrating his sovereignty, power and truthfulness in describing and even demonstrating the creatures he has made and that Job has access to. It follows on from many other real examples in creation like the binding of the Pleiades and the loosening of Orion in Job 38:31, both confirmed by modern cosmology https://coldcasechristianity.com/writings/is-the-astronomy-in-the-book-of-job-scientifically-consistent/
“Can you bind the chains of the
or loose the cords of Orion?
God explicitly frames the argument in terms of fault and truth, consider:
Job 38:1-3
Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind and said:
“Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge?
Dress for action like a man;
I will question you, and you make it known to me.
Job 40:1-9
And the LORD said to Job:
“Shall a faultfinder contend with the Almighty?
He who argues with God, let him answer it.”
Then Job answered the LORD and said:
“Behold, I am of small account; what shall I answer you?
I lay my hand on my mouth.
I have spoken once, and I will not answer;
twice, but I will proceed no further.”
Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind and said:
“Dress for action like a man;
I will question you, and you make it known to me.
Will you even put me in the wrong?
Will you condemn me that you may be in the right?
Have you an arm like God,
and can you thunder with a voice like his?
Then comes behemoth followed by leviathan…
Sarcosuchus, not a dinosaur, but an extremely large crocodilian is a potential match to the described leviathan, and it also has an unusual large bulbous structure on the end of its snout. If this was used for some kind of exothermic chemical reaction and expulsion, it is not the only example as the bombardier beetle does this now.
The osteoderms look to be a close match! Compare:
Job 41:15-17
His back is made of rows of shields,
shut up closely as with a seal.
One is so near to another
that no air can come between them.
They are joined one to another;
they clasp each other and cannot be separated.
Job 41:30
His underparts are like sharp potsherds;
he spreads himself like a threshing sledge on the mire.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcosuchus
Osteoderms
“The osteoderms, also known as dermal scutes, of Sarcosuchus were similar to those goniopholodids like Sunosuchus and Goniopholis; they formed an uninterrupted surface that started in the posterior part of the neck down to the middle of the tail, these were wide, rectangular plates with keels on their lateral sides. The abdomen (belly) of the animal was also considerably armoured, possessing a minimum of 6 rows of non-overlapping osteoderms.”